Climbers that won't quit
- CarolWallace
- CarolWallace
- stlgal
- stlgal
- CarolWallace
- stlgal
- CarolWallace
- stlgal
- CarolWallace
- stlgal
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» CarolWallace - Re: Re: Re: red or pink z5 hardy climbers as good as New Dawn?
In response to message posted by stlgal:Your bizarre mold isn't really a humidity thing. They are what you call slime molds (we get them here, too) and they are almost always found on mulch that is beginning to decompose. They are completely harmless and will disintegrate in a few days if just left alone. Actually, they are only a sign that your mulch is doing what it should be doing.
For cascading down a wall as opposed to climbing I'd lok at either groundover roses or ramblers. Although I'm not sure how many ramblers there are out there with repeat blooms.
The only other rose company I can think of that seems to really breed for easy care and disease resistance is Tesselaer (I am not certain I spelled that right.) He's out of Australia but his roses are big over here. I'm blocking on the name but they were originally easy to spot as they came in bright, pink pots. They come in white, pink and a deeper pink and are marketed as groundcover roses.
I was going to send you to the place where I got many of mine - Rosaraie at Bayfields - because the catalog was so good about classifying roses according to hardiness and use - but discovered to my dismay when I went to the site that the woner, Lloyd Brace, retired this year. Let me poke around and see if I can find another, equally good catalog. I have two in mind, if I can only find them and if they are as informative as when I last shopped them.
-- posted by CarolWallace
» CarolWallace - Re: A couple possibilities
In response to message posted by CarolWallace:Also check Star Roses - Zephirine Drouhain is one that I know Mark was fond of. And he didn't make recommendations lightly. And they have the entire line of "carefree" roses known for disease resistance. Plus a nice list of
-- posted by CarolWallace
» stlgal - Re: Re: A couple possibilities
In response to message posted by CarolWallace:Carol,
Thanks SO MUCH for your thoughtful reply and for all of the suggestions and links! I should certainly be able to find some candidates that appear to be everything I'm looking for among these. And learning about and picking new roses is at least half the fun! Now if only I had more room in my yard...
It is also good to know that those colored molds shouldn't have any ill effects on my plants. I'd been scooping them up carefully and worrying about spores blowing all over.
Many thanks again and happy gardening,
Kris
-- posted by stlgal
» stlgal - Re: Re: A couple possibilities
In response to message posted by CarolWallace:I am sad to hear the Bayfields Rosarie is out of commission--I also spent a lot of time on their web site the first year I started planting roses here! I got in totally over my head, planting 67 roses that spring!!! Somehow, in November and December it seemed so easy to lay out the garden with little circles for each rose and click to buy (I purchased from Sam Kedam, Pickering and David Austin). Then I had to start digging and amending holes like mad in late Feb. when the frost was still in the ground, and I had bareroot roses soaking overnight in both bathtubs several weekends in March-April. Total insanity...But it looks terrific!
I actually did try putting in a John Davis last spring, but it got a lot of powdery mildew and this spring was again covered before I could even begin to think about spraying. This may just be due to an unfavorable location (against a North-facing fence). But I'm inclined to try something else. I also thought Zephirine Drouhin (sp?) was a viable possibility but read someplace (maybe botanica) that it is blackspot prone and I tend to not even think about putting something in here unless notations in various places are unanimous with respect to a roses' excellent disease and blackspot resistance. Still, with all of the newer shrub and groundcover possibilities, I should have plenty to choose from!!
Thanks again,
Kris
-- posted by stlgal
» CarolWallace - Re: Re: Re: A couple possibilities
In response to message posted by stlgal:I was really sorry about Rosaraie at Bayfields myself. That and Heirloom Roses were my main sources for buying roses because they were so dependable and I knew if Lloyd Brace could grow it then I could in my climate (zone 6 - I'm a wee bit luckier than you that way. ;-)
I was poking around and was amazed at what different catalogs will tell you - I even found descriptions that mentioned that a certyain rose would be disease resiustant even against a north facing wall. Of course what is disease resistant in one area of the country may not be so under different climate conditions.
However, I did find a few resources for you. Help Me Find Roses seems to list about every rose I ever heard of plus sources = which should lead you to several catalog descriptions that may tell you about disese resistance and how well a rose really flowers. Also you might want to get the main list of AARS Rose Award Winners because part of their criteria for giving a rose an award is its resistance to diseases. Finally, these three links lead to lists of disease resistant roses and may contain one you are considering.
http://www.oldladyofoldroses.ca/roses_00...
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/aaes/communicat...
http://www.rainforest2548.org/valleyreco...
Now that I think back, I recall that years ago a magazine featured Zepherine Drouhin and everyone al over the country started begging for it at their nurseries. Apparently in some climates it's a true standout - but in other areas of the country it was a disappointment. In fact, it may not be terrible hardy in colder areas.
-- posted by CarolWallace
» stlgal - Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple possibilities
Thanks again--I've bookmarked all of the sites you recommend and it will be great to have multiple places to check as I begin researching what is best to put in. Hopefully the weather holds this weekend and I can get out and do some deadheading as my bonanza of first bloom is just beginning to wind down a bit!Many thanks for all of your help,
Kris
-- posted by stlgal
» CarolWallace - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple possibilities
In response to message posted by stlgal:Didn't you say you were in zone 5? And you have blooms already? My rogusas have big buds, as do many of the other heirloom roses (but none of the more modern ones) but nothing close to a bloom yet.
Of course we've had a weird and unusually cold spring. Only yesterday did I decide that it was warm anough to plant a few of the dahlias and other tender stuff.
I'm glad you mentioned deadheading, though - this year I am reminding myself early to gather the petals from the damask and other fragrant roses for potpourri! The damasks only bloom once, but so heavily that you can always cut huge bunches and still have plenty left to look good in the garden. And when they are done, I have trained clematis to grow through them so it looks like they are flowering later, as well.
-- posted by CarolWallace
» stlgal - I'm afraid to even think about pruning New Dawn next spring...
In response to message posted by CarolWallace:We are right on the border between z5 and 6 (supposedly St. Louis city is z6 and we are in the suburbs outside, right on the line as I can tell from the low resolution maps).
It has been somewhat wet here all this spring, but none of the freeze-thaw cycles that we get some years that wreak havoc on the roses. Last year they put out buds and had them frozen to death twice before finally the third time was a charm. My neighbor grows a lot of beautiful but fairly wimpy hybrid tea varieties and was worried about his plants dying. Then about 5 minutes after the final spring freeze, moist, hot air kicked in and we were headed into prime fungal season (much of the year in St. Louis). Fortunately this spring has been much gentler on them.
The New Dawn petals ended up covering the lawn below the wall and my husband raked and bagged them up before mowing, as he says they "mulch wierd.'
Since this is New Dawn's third year, I guess I will have to do a little shaping during the growing season this year and pruning of side shoots and some canes next spring. I am scared to even think about it, as the canes are multilayered and tangled together on the wall with the oldest ones underneath. So I somehow have to reach through to get to those with my bypass pruner and then disentangle them from the newer canes I'm keeping. And New Dawn has those gigantic thorns that can pierce even my leather gauntlet gloves at the seams. With 10 plants, it is going to be quite a project and I'm not sure exactly what to aim for. I've finally gotten fearless dealing with the shrubs, but this is something else altogether. Is there a drawback to just not pruning a rose like New Dawn much, except to remove weak or damaged canes? Any idea what the natural lifespan of these roses is or how much not pruning or lightly pruning affects it? I see pictures in books of ramblers growing up trees, etc. and those must never get pruned up high.
So far all we have done with this the wall o' New Dawn is try to cut back canes that head the wrong way back to a bud eye that is pointing in the right direction and try to keep the plants from taking over the rest of the rose bed (which I think they might do if given free rein). Don't know that I'd mind that too much, but I hope to keep some room for other roses intact.
I'm encouraged to hear that you like training clematis through roses. I've done that on my arbor and it looks great (Dublin Bay with Jackmanii and Nelly Moser/ Coral Dawn with a fuscia clematis whose name I don't know). I was somewhat afraid it might eventually complicate pruning to have the clematic twining around the rose canes. I guess you just take away both together?
-- posted by stlgal
» CarolWallace - Re: I'm afraid to even think about pruning New Dawn next spring
In response to message posted by stlgal:Pruning! Yes - the real fear for me was pruning at the wrong time and having that late frost come along. It happened last year, but this year I got it right.
I have a sort of mantra that runs through my head as I prune the climbers (or any other roses, for that matter. You have to go at it carefully and systematically. The first thing I do is get rid of anything thinner than a pencil. Then I get rid og any canes that cross others - they will only eventually interfere with air circulation and encourage fungal problems. Then I ruthlessly cut off canes that are going the wrong way. Finally I cut out the older canes, leaving younger and more flexible ones that I can let grow more in a lateral fashion - the more horizontal the growth, the more buds the plant puts out. Notice how few flowers you see on an upright cane?
So my spring pruning is pretty tadical - but that is what Mark always recommended and I found that as scary and small as my remaining plant seems when I'm done (and I'm generally down to about three long canes that I spread in a sort of fan shape over my arbor - it starts to put out growth like mad and then flowers fabulously all season.
And that isn't nearly as drastic as what I do to the Austin roses, which usually end up with about three or four canes about 18" tall when I'm done. They are still 6' tall at season's end.
I grow clematis through everything. I have a Jackmanii growing through a golden chaemacyparis, and (big mistake) a reddish violet one whose name I can't recall growing through a red Japanese maple - the mistake being that the flowers are the same color as the leaves. I have a huge clematis, "The President" growing in and through my garden of heirloom roses. And on my New Dawn I have Duchess of Edinburgh as well as a sweet autumn clematis. The reason it works is that both are of the type that you cut down to about a foot tall at the same time you prune the roses. So everything else that's old is cut off and pulled away. So the trick is to choose the type clematis that gets pruned down in spring.
Have you ever seen roses trained along chains? Sort of a swag effect. like using three posts with one in the center of the bed and one at each end and chains that slightly droop between them. Train the laterals from the New Dawn that want to go that way to go along the chain and you get a gorgeous effect. I saw a photo of it done in Queen Mary's rose garden several years ago and have been tempted ever since.
-- posted by CarolWallace
» stlgal - Re: Re: I'm afraid to even think about pruning New Dawn next sp
I've tried to write you back a couple of times from my in-laws in Carmel, CA (where we are now) and keep losing the connection and my post. But just wanted to say thanks for the pruning advice! I'll go for it big time next spring. I gave everything a spray-and-a-promise before leaving and can only hope that it hasn't gone too "wild kingdom" in the rose garden when I get back. Your clematis-rose (and other plant) combos. sound spectacular. Will write a bit more when I'm able to get a more stable connection.-- posted by stlgal
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