Hardy Euphorbias - Part 2
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- Marge_Talt
- HollyT
- bindweed
- Marge_Talt
- Marge_Talt
- bindweed
- Marge_Talt
- bindweed
- Marge_Talt
- JenL_2
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» Marge_Talt - Re:I have your Euphorbia
In response to message posted by HollyT:Hiya Holly...been wondering how you were doing...think of you every time I water the brug babies:-)
Well, I don't remember which euphorb I gave you - does it have red-purple foliage? The evergreen kind all bloom on old wood and when blooming is done and those stems start to look ratty (can be some time after the actual flowers fade), then cut them back to the ground or sometimes you'll see new sprouts coming out of the base of a stem, so cut just above those. If you trim the evergreen euphorbs back before they bloom, you will never see flowers:-)
If you want them to seed around for you, be sure to wait until the seedpods have ripened and shed their seed - that's when the flower stems start to look ratty. Then, next spring keep an eye out around the mother plant for seedlings - will have 2 oval, rather thick blue-green leaves and the stem will probably be stained red for part of its length.
With a hard winter, like this past one, there will be damage to the mature stems - you will be able to see this as the tops just die. Those you need to remove as they won't do anything. I lost a bunch of clumps of euphorbs this winter - usually happens when winters are severe - but since they seed about so joyfully, I see lots of babies sprouting around, so will have more for future years.
If happy, that brunnera will start to seed around like mad. If you want another one, email me and we'll figure a time when you can stop by...I have tons of them.
If you want seedlings, don't cut back the flower stems until they turn black and half rotted and really get on your nerves.
No, haven't seen that Ann Lovejoy book...will have to keep an eye out for it.
-- posted by Marge_Talt
» HollyT - Re: Brug babies
In response to message posted by Marge_Talt:Hi Marge and all,
OK, thanks. Do you have any extra brug babies? Others didn't get cuttings of the pink and peach taken in time (others may include me---won't know til they bloom). Now they're sheepishly asking for replacements.
Ya gotta see the ann lovejoy book. It's a winner. Some of it is very PNW (lots of pics of plants that will make it thru dry summer w/o irrigation), But i'm getting a lot out of it---good technical info, not just her preferences.
-- posted by HollyT
» bindweed - Euphorbias -- Once a spurge, always a spurge!
Marge, I agree, that was a great article!Nonethess, it may surprise you that I have been yanking many of them out. E. amygdaloides var. robbiae was the first to go! Dan Hinkley's caveat of "romping attitude; site carefully.", actually reads ... this is a plant on steroids. It will seed everywhere. So will most of these critters. Some are very stoloniferous, so be very careful about sitting these plants. E. cyparissias and E. griffithi 'Fireglow' are two that come to mind.
The chartreuse yellow of some of these Euphorbias may look super with Rodgersia or Cimicifuga "Brunette" but so do yellow Millium and Hakenochlea.
Polychroma and myrsinites I use often and rarely have I been disappointed. E. wulfenii is another Eurphorbia I greatly admire.
As for hardiness I think a great many of them will thrive in a zone 5 or six. E. characias being the exception. (It also dislikes our winter rain ... good drainage is important.) This too has been a recent deletion! CLAY SOIL!
My own mistakes! A few years ago I planted E griffithi 'Fireglow' with some Aster frikartii, thinking the combination would be great. The aster's died for neglect:-( and I sorta forgot about the dormant E. That spring I planted some more drought tolerant Cistus. Very pink and incredibly godawful when the orange Euphorbia appeared. It looked much nicer across a bordering stream with a bank of Rodgersia and Gunnera on the other side.
E. myrsinites remains one of my favorites for the rock garden wall. I once interplanted Love lies Bleeding thinking of the gray/silver purple combination. Imagine my surprise when an upstart California poppy intruded. The orange to gray was beyond belief. The Purple of the dwarf Love lies Bleeding helped as well.
As for keeping with with deadheading the seedheads, I have never quite succeeded ... so palustris and others simply overwhelmed their placements. (Same for Hellebores!)
E. cyprissas -- has also been designated as a noxious weed in some states, so be forewarned. Also a warning, the sap of these plants can be very irritating to some people. So when deadheading, wear gloves or wash your hands after handling. You do not want that sap to go to your eyes.
I also have a lovely purple foliaged form, that is super attractive, but like most, seeds all over!
Sorry, for my "rueful" commentary. One other note, vigor, weediness and other such problems may not be as much of a problem in other areas of the country. What becomes a weed here in the Pacific Northwest, may not be such a problem in another part of California. California's experience with Pampas Grass self-sowing, has not been a problem up here.
Add the beautiful Crocosmia 'Lucifer' to my list of overly adventuresome plants.
P.S. Just after I finished editing out some E. wulfenii's, my employer came home with E. griffithi. Oh well, I will simply call it my employment annuity!
-- posted by bindweed
» Marge_Talt - Re: Brug babies
In response to message posted by HollyT:Hi Holly,
Am sure I have some extras...have some earmarked for people, so we need to talk about how many of who and I need to go sort out what I've got see who made it and spray for those dang aphids and feed those children. Email me and we'll work it out.
Will definitely need to find that book!
-- posted by Marge_Talt
» Marge_Talt - Re: Euphorbias -- Once a spurge, always a spurge!
In response to message posted by bindweed:Hiya Herb,
I think that your salubrious climate will foster weediness amongst those who seed freely more than mine.
I find that I tend to lose the adult plants in hard winters - like our last one, but always find seedlings to replace them, so I don't object to the seeding around...seedlings are easy to remove if not wanted.
In your climate - where I recently discovered that Arum italicum, for Pete's sake, can become a weed, I would expect that you could easily end up with a lot more plants than you wanted!
E. amygdaloides var. robbiae, for example, is v.e.r.y. slowly spreading under a dogwood, where I wish it would cover the ground, but the tops keep getting killed back each winter. Think I've seen maybe one flower head on that one and no seeding - it's spreading underground.
E. cyparissias does have a very bad reputation, but I've got it in my sand bed and actually am not seeing it this spring, so wonder if it survived. Figured since this is a raised bed, I could yank it if it got too rambunctious, which it had not as of last year...but that one does always come with a caution!
I once had E. griffithi 'Fireglow', but allowed it to get shaded out and it is gone - keep thinking about getting it again for the color, but seem to remember it was a rather awkward plant from a shape standpoint...and I don't really have a sunny spot for it where that color would work.
'Polychroma' is one I had once and it only lasted a season - really would like to get it again and see if I can make it stay. E. myrsinites seems only really happy in my gravel drive, where it comes and goes and I enjoy it no end. Have some in that sand bed and the babies I put in last year are fine, but the older plant died over winter...go figure.
E. amygdaloides 'Rubra' - or whatever name it's going under - is one of my very favorites and it seeds around and I let it as it always puts itself in a good spot. Last year, had scads of it in flower and this year, most of the adult plants didn't make it through the winter and those that did had damage, so few flowers, but lots of seedlings so I should be able to keep it going...would hate to lose that one.
Most of the evergreen species are really only hardy in z 7 I think. E. myrsinites is an exception - think it's hardy to z. 3. 'Wulfenii' is rated to z. 8, but survives most winters for me, as does E. characias (rated z 8 also).
Except in the sand bed and a couple of other very well amended spots, all mine have to make do with clay soil. They don't seem to mind it, but my soil drains very well and, you are correct, this is very important to all of the species, except, I think E. palustris, who, I understand can grow in a swamp. Now, that is one I adore. Moved mine in fear and trepidation this spring as it really got way too large for the raised bed it was planted in..it seems to be doing just fine...have never seen a seedling from it, tho'.
You are also absolutely correct about the caustic nature of the sap. I have developed an extreme sensitivity to it - ended up in the emergency room last spring with face red and swollen and huge red, itchy patches all over from the contact dermatitus I developed from not taking the time to get gloves on the day I tied up a large, sprawling E. characias...think that taught me a lesson as I was on meds for a week or more and it took nearly a month to all clear up. So I always advise now that anybody handling these plants wear gloves. It's sort of like poison ivy; you might be able to go for years not contracting it, but then, one day....
Your companion plantings with various euphorbs sound most interesting. Think I need to put one of my E. amygdaloides 'Rubra's over next to Eupatorium 'Chocolate', now...would be a neat combo, I think.
-- posted by Marge_Talt
» bindweed - Re: Re: Euphorbias -- Once a spurge, always a spurge!
Marge, I knew this would encourage some discussion! One reason I posted this, is that I have been responsible in planting some of these very plants. What works with a singleton, or a small group may not work with blocks of forty. Our 'salubrious'??? climate may create three deadheadings a year. Secondary deadheadings I may neglect ... hence the seedling weedlings.Same for Hellebore, Crocosmia, some Geraniums ad infinitum. What does tick me off are nurseries full aware of the weedling nature of some of their plants (add many of the alliums). Most of these are given carefree names such as 'twinkle toes' or whatever. 'Twinkle toes' may just turn out to be athletes foot in your garden.
Guess I am apologetic for the Nursery Industry. I can think of NO other industry so misrepresenting in what they sell! From plant size (gallon cans that are not), plants that may be poisonous to pets or humans, or dermatological unsafe -- yet they are near always sold with NO WARNINGS!
Two of my customers bought Euphorbias that would seed unmercifully. Both were recommended as soil binders in an erosion prone area. Both are on the Dungeness River and the consequences of these weeds would be spread up and down the river!!!
My comment was more about being cautious, even to be wary of Nursery Gifter's/Grifter's pushing things they ought nought to.
-- posted by bindweed
» Marge_Talt - Re: Euphorbias -- Once a spurge, always a spurge!
In response to message posted by bindweed:Well, Herb, I see your point, and to a degree, agree with it. I do wish that more nurseries would issue the appropriate caveats with plants that can be rambunctious in certain settings.
Problem is that what is a weed for you or even for me may turn out to be that precious plant who has to be coddled to live for another in a different climate.
Now, plants who can be toxic in one way or another really need to have that flagged - no excuse for not doing this except laziness, greed or plain ignorance on the part of the nursery.
Thing is, nurseries are businesses and in the business of selling plants and likely figure that if their listings contain too many red flags, people won't buy the plants. Of course, this point raises many issues that can be debated on both sides...
I do abhore nurseries or growers naming plants things like "twinkle toes"....give me the actual botanical name and the most generally accepted (if such exists) common name...in that order.
Now, I, personally, don't have problems with euphorbs or hellebores seeding around. I have noticed that where I ignore carpets of seedlings of these genera, only a couple survive to become mature plants anyway. And, of course, since I love both of these - I want more:-)
Asters are probably my worst seeders from a pain in the neck standpoint, but I wouldn't be without them.
IMO, if you want certain plants, you either have to be willing to dead head or pull seedlings...just part of the gardener's life.
-- posted by Marge_Talt
» bindweed - Once a spurge, always a spurge!
"IMO, if you want certain plants, you either have to be willing to dead head or pull seedlings...just part of the gardener's life."Marge, I agree. My experience or mind view is after having watched two wonderful gardens decline because of the ill health of the owners. What used to be doable, no longer is; and the older I get, I plant for less deadheading. I also am hesitant on installing plants that bloom for a short time and require much hand work.
Gardener's lives should, to a small measure also include the time to sit down on the bench with a cup of tea or glass of wine. Time reserved to watch the sunrise or sunset. Instead all too many gardens become the masters of the owners, not the other way around.
Out come the catnip and ALL the Meconopsis -- Welsh Poppy, sold to these folks with a chirpy name I have forgotten.
-- posted by bindweed
» Marge_Talt - Re: Once a spurge, always a spurge!
In response to message posted by bindweed:True, Herb, as we "mature", we need to think about just how much we can manage...been pondering that as I stand on one foot doing the gardener's flamingo dance, removing leaves from clumps of plants. There will come a day when that dance gets beyond me, but I may ponder the possibilty, but until the day arrives, I will keep moving on, making more gardens while I find not enough time to take care of the ones I have as well as I'd like. Greed...pure and simple gardeners greed:-)
Gardeners should be able to sit and smell the roses, I know. I find that very hard to do, myself, as my eyes tend to go groundward, looking for those weedy bits:-)..nice theory, tho'. Actually, what I most enjoy about gardening is the actual gardening...
Out comes Meconopsis! Like you can actually grow that plant? :-) Ah, the benign climate of the PNW!!!
-- posted by Marge_Talt
» JenL_2 - Re: Once a spurge, always a spurge!
In response to Re: Once a spurge, always a spurge! posted by Marge_Talt:Marge - just found your Hardy Euphorbia articles at Suite 101. Enjoyed them very much! I also am enamored by Euphorbs. I live in the Pac NW and do solely container gardening. Even with some Pac NW deep freezes this winter the Eurphorbs in my container garden are looking great. This time of year the Euphorb heads are nodding and pre-flowering - just beautiful! I have some of the plants mentioned in your articles plus others not mentioned. Will try to check name tags and take some pictures to post.
Mine would mostly be considered a shade garden - my current fav perennials for looking great all winter are: Euphorbs, Heucheras, Hebes, Primulas, some ferns, and of course, Hellebores.
By the way - enjoyed your Heuchera article - found it through google.
Don't know why there wasn't more discussion generated by your Euphorbia articles except that us gardeners have more to do outside in our gardens besides posting at discussion sites. Am sure there are more readers out there than there are posters.
Thanks!...Jen
-- posted by JenL_2
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